I AM not sure that I should even be intervening in a spat between a Tory councillor and a Lib Dem councillor.

But, between them, Cllrs Roger Hayes and Andy Morgan have managed to highlight one of the great insoluble problems in the philosophy of punishment.

Andy Morgan is quite right when he says that carting sessions and mechanical training will be seen by victims of crime as rewards for bad behaviour. However, Roger Hayes is also right when he says that such methods produce a much lower re-offending rate than conventional punishments.

The paradox is that the harshest form of punishment - and from the point of view of the victim, the most satisfactory - is also the most expensive and the least effective when it comes to measuring re-offending rates.

The Young Offenders' Institutions and conventional prisons are the sixth-form colleges and universities of the crime world.

Once upon a time, I owned a Vauxhall Astra. It went like a rocket, and was enormous fun to drive. But the car thieves loved it. They had it eight times in three years, despite my trying various anti-theft devices, and eventually they wrote it off for me.

I have been burgled on three or four occasions. On balance, I'd go for whatever punishment most reduced the crime rate, and if that involves diverting some hapless yob from a life of crime at the cost of a course in car mechanics or a few free go-kart sessions, I'd buy that.

It isn't just the hassle of sorting out the insurance claim and getting the car (or the house) mended. It isn't only the shock of finding that your universe has been violated. It is the "oh, blimey, here we go again", when you find the lights not working, the burglar alarm ripped off the wall, and the PVC back-door you thought was thief-proof on its back in the yard.

Believe me, I've been there. It is hard work - and unnecessary hard work at that.

Peter Johnston

Kendal Road

Bolton